The "PC" of PCBSD refers to PERSONAL computer

[caieng]

I copied this quote from the installation guide:

"In this step, you will create an Administrator, or "root", password, as well as user accounts (at least one). Like on other modern operating systems, PC-BSD has mainly 2 levels of administration:
Administrator-level: Full control over the entire system, can manage files, software and users (add/edit/remove);
User-level: Control limited to user's directory, cannot install applications system-wide, cannot edit files outside user directory
As you see, an administrator has all priviledges and using a computer as an administrator can be dangerous because the person can install any unwanted software, or can even erase the whole system. Using a computer as user is much more secure, and if damage is done, they will be limited to the user's directory.
This is why you need to create at least one user account which you will use to log into PC-BSD each time you start your computer. When you have filled the information for the new user, click the "Add" button, and your user should appear in the "User Accounts" field underneath. You can click a user name at any time and modify its information; clicking "Apply" will save the changes. "
*************
NO
Absolutely WRONG
I am not referring to spelling mistakes!!!
NO, you have it COMPLETELY wrong. If you want to succeed with this product, even as a FREE download, you MUST give the user an OPPORTUNITY to choose whether or not he or she wishes to impose upon himself/herself, the old fashioned, OBSOLETE, nonsensical notion of SUPERVISOR/USER capability, a relic of 1970's design.
ELIMINATE this wrong thinking, and what emerges:
NO need for a user password.
NO need for a supervisor capability.
Certainly no need for user accounts, or permissions to access particular files.....That's all NONSENSE in a PERSONAL computing environment.
Yes, as a user, I may indeed CRASH my system. Yup, you are right, if we had the 1970's method, my system would not have crashed. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly, HOWEVER, I do not wish to incur the penalty of being OBLIGED to login as root, or even as CAI ENG. NO, I just want to hit the power button, and 2 seconds later, see my computer ready to go. NO PASSWORDS. No logins. This is PERSONAL computing, right?
IF I seek an enterprise capable, multiuser operating system, I have lots of other choices, don't I? I have no need for PERSONAL COMPUTING solutions, whether based upon BSD, Slackware, Debian, RedHat, or WindowsXP for that matter.
Hello? Is there anyone alive at this remote outpost?
Good morning, it is not 1978. You have been somnolent for nearly three decades, now, it is time to arouse yourself from this comatose state. We need a PERSONAL solution, not a multiuser solution with passwords and logins.

[Charles]

Calm down my friend

You can leave the "auto-login" option checked and between the moment you press the "Start" button of your computer and the moment you click the "Konqueror" icon, you won't be asked a single time to type your password.

There are minimum security measures that need to be taken. Modern operating systems such as OS X or MS Windows also require a password. Some people disable password on Windows machines, but then when the friend of their brother access the computer and installs viruses, they only have their eyes to cry

[dracheflieger]

Hmmm....maybe we should all drop back to DOS 5.0, drop our panties and spread our legs...we could all connect to Compuserve or GEnie @ 300 baud, not worry about the 300 or so viruses out there that exist but can't be delivered over a modem, not have to worry about logins or passwords and just have one of them good ol' PERSONAL moments...daaahhhmmm...they told me I'd have flashbacks if I sucked on that little square of paper but I never believed 'em ;-)

I know how you feel, I've felt the same way at times but those times are past as is the world I used to live and program in and should it ever come to pass again, I probably wont be around. Charles is right on both points...choose autologin and forget about passwords until you wish to install something. One of Windows biggest problems is that users are created as Administrators so anything that comes along and wants to be installed will be installed, no questions asked. Vista will be a horse of a different color and if you think any of the BSDs or linuces are bad, glam onto Vista and ride it a while.

BTW, welcome

[TerryP]

Well let me say this, if it's my PERSONAL computer you best know my PASSWORD to use it xD

I don't want any joe blow who walks by or any Web Developer to be able to try and modify my PERSONAL system. Some program wants to install crap into C:\WINDOWS without asking ? Nope ! Same for /usr/local/.


The diffrence is that unlike Windows XP things are designed to run under normal user rights. If your not the owner of the system or it's admin you should not be able to to do much aside from your home directory. According to what I've read from Microsoft every jane is an XP Admin because they'd be calling up and screaming WT* does this compatible program not run ?

If Joe/Jane user wants to forgo any kind of safety they can use the root account and login from the KDE with that. If they want every one to have root priv by default they don't need a multi-user system with multiple accounts. if they want a few people to have unlimited power they can create more root accounts and use them as thus. PC-BSD is not Freespire...

I'll tell you this, the idea of an Admin and users is not a relic from 1970 it's a standard of Multi-User enviroments. Thats some thing I can personally voutch for Windows 98 and XP being poor at doing well. E-Mail accounts have passwords but every thing is on one server. Bank accounts have passwords but can not be redrawn from by Tom and Dick cracker without breaking the law. Yet one bank serves many accounts. These all are multi-user systems with controled accounts.

Hey it's good for keeping the $$$ in the bank safe its good for the Desktop from being an open door in my book.

Vista hopefully will be like KDE and remember when a program is ran with Admin priv and not ask every ten seconds when changing specs in the control panel :-)


Stable, Open Source, Functional, Secure my four points of intrest in a Desktop.

[kenji]

No CAIENG, you are wrong. If you want to run your system as root, NOBODY is stopping you. Do whatever you want. Users are not needed but the consequences of NOT using user accounts is your own problem. You want to reinstall your system every time you break something running everything as root? That's fine. You want to reinstall your system everytime a hacker takes over your box? That's fine. Nobody is telling you not to. If you want to run your system like it's 1985? Fine, do it as root.

Passwords are not a big &%*$ing deal. Running as root is obsolete, not the other way around as you stated. Go download a cracked version of windows for free and be happy.

Hmmm....maybe we should all drop back to DOS 5.0, drop our panties and spread our legs...we could all connect to Compuserve or GEnie @ 300 baud, not worry about the 300 or so viruses out there that exist but can't be delivered over a modem, not have to worry about logins or passwords and just have one of them good ol' PERSONAL moments...daaahhhmmm...they told me I'd have flashbacks if I sucked on that little square of paper but I never believed 'em ;-)

I know how you feel, I've felt the same way at times but those times are past as is the world I used to live and program in and should it ever come to pass again, I probably wont be around. Charles is right on both points...choose autologin and forget about passwords until you wish to install something. One of Windows biggest problems is that users are created as Administrators so anything that comes along and wants to be installed will be installed, no questions asked. Vista will be a horse of a different color and if you think any of the BSDs or linuces are bad, glam onto Vista and ride it a while.

BTW, welcome

Laughing my ass off. Sorry if I offended anyone with that. Security has become a neccessity and maybe it is annoying but still needed. LOL!

[Charles]

Everybody is blaming Windows for being unsecure, let's not blame PC-BSD for being secure. It's not too secure, just the needed level of security that a modern system requires in today's evil world.

[TerryP]

Who said windows was in secure? It's plenty secure enough if you make it, just a every day thing.

[caieng]

...You can leave the "auto-login" option checked and between the moment you press the "Start" button of your computer and the moment you click the "Konqueror" icon, you won't be asked a single time to type your password.

Thanks Charles, for your time in replying. Sorry, I am ignorant here, as a novice concerning PC-BSD, I went first to the on line instruction manual. I have not actually downloaded any version of the software. Perhaps therefore, I am in error. I believe that this SECTION of the forum is entitled:
"INSTALLING PC-BSD".
I believe, maybe incorrectly, that YOUR RESPONSE, on the contrary, refers, NOT to the installation, but to the operation, assuming one has ALREADY achieved a successful installation.
You, in other words, Charles, are DEMANDING that I accept, as a precondition for installation, the REQUIREMENT to enter a password as ROOT, and IDENTIFY, ABSOLUTELY, without any user option, AT LEAST one user, during the installation process, even though I neither require, nor desire to have user accounts or ROOTS.
Yes?
No?
In THIRTY years of using PERSONAL Computers, everything from DEC Vaxes and TRS-80's, to the present, I have NEVER, EVER, required a user password, from my OWN point of view. Yes, it was obligatory to enter one, for UNIX, Ultrix, VMS, and many other operating systems over the years.
What I dislike about this company, PC-BSD, from my first encounter, TODAY, is this hypocrisy, claiming to have a PERSONAL computing version of BSD Unix, yet in fact keeping the same old Bell Labs junk that we had back in the late 60's--early 70's.
GET RID OF IT, offer users the option of truly PERSONAL COMPUTING, which requires NONE of that unix overhead.

...There are minimum security measures that need to be taken. Modern operating systems such as OS X or MS Windows also require a password. Some people disable password on Windows machines, but then when the friend of their brother access the computer and installs viruses, they only have their eyes to cry....

No there are not. NO minimum security measures are needed for the computers in my own PERSONAL space. MODERN ?? Windows????
I don't think so. That was modern back in 1980 when I first encountered windows on the Xerox machine. It was modern on the first Apples. It has not been modern for at least a quarter century. Use of a graphic interface with mouse ("windows") DOES NOT REQUIRE any more security apparatus than a command line interface. This is drivel. "The friend of their brother....." NO, dear Charles. You are NOT referring to PERSONAL computing, but rather to MULTIUSER computing. The friend of my brother has no access to my computers. Neither does my brother.
"Some people disable password on windows machines", here I think you may be referring to MSoft Windows, which I have used for multiple decades without ever employing any password. I certainly never needed to "DISABLE" any password, nor did I need to enter a password IN ORDER TO INSTALL the os. That's what this forum topic is about, right?
INSTALLING PC-BSD.
May I humbly suggest that you reconsider your responses. Kenji and the rest of you. I think you are simply parroting back the standard unix nonsense. Do you imagine that you are the first to issue a warning about the great bogie man, on Halloween? 'Oh, watch out, you will destroy your OS if you can install anything you want'.....
You folks confound PERSONAL computing with enterprise, multiuser computing:
"...so anything that comes along and wants to be installed will be installed, no questions asked...." [what, someone will walk into my house?]
"...if it's my PERSONAL computer you best know my PASSWORD to use it ..."
[How would I even have access to it, if it is your PERSONAL computer???]
do you share your toothbrush with others?

"drop our panties and spread our legs..."

Hmm.
I don't believe that my questions were issued in such a contemptuous manner. Those who are unable to offer intelligent rebuttals, ought to remain silent, in harmony with their ignorance. If I were the moderator of this forum, this man, and the other bloke who found his obnoxious comments meritorious, would both be given the heave ho.

In short, members of this forum have not addressed my desire for an OS which offers users a CHOICE: either install the Unix security apparatus, or ignore it. Would you provide motor vehicles with ONLY automatic seatbelts, i.e. the automobile would not operate until the seat belt was fastened? Personally, I use a seatbelt. I think it is a useful feature. However, I would not purchase an automobile that COULD NOT BE MOVED, absent insertion of the seat belt into the security clasp. That's not how I live my life. Get rid of the REQUIREMENT to think like unix folks, and I will have an interest in your OS. Remain faithful to the Unix philosophy, on the other hand, and you are committing fraud: There is no room for PERSONAL computing in an OS devoted to multiuser access to the same memory on a motherboard--that BY DEFINITION, is NOT personal computing.

[kenji]

You are NOT referring to PERSONAL computing, but rather to MULTIUSER computing. The friend of my brother has no access to my computers. Neither does my brother.
"Some people disable password on windows machines", here I think you may be referring to MSoft Windows, which I have used for multiple decades without ever employing any password. I certainly never needed to "DISABLE" any password, nor did I need to enter a password IN ORDER TO INSTALL the os.

It is true that no one has PHYSICAL access to your system, or maybe they do, that is not the point. If this system is connected to the internet, then security measures are a good idea. If your system is without physical access to anyone and NOT connected to the outside world (no internet), then, and ONLY then would you have a 'personal' computer as you think of it. PC are generally connected to the internet so security measures are in place.

Now, I think that it would be best if you actually tried to install PC-BSD before screaming bloody murder. If you did, then you would notice the option to autologin IN THE INSTALLATION PROCEEDURE. This is not something that happens afterword, it is an option from the very start.

That not withstanding, it seems that UNIX is not the right OS for you. Just a hunch, but I think you will be disappointed.

On a side note, if you come into this forum kicking and screaming, you should not expect a kind answer in return. I think that the poeple in this forum are very tolerant and no one has been overtly rude to you. I may have been harsh and I'm sorry for that but it is an acceptable response to yelling and caring on. For one thing, I enjoy the unix heritage and appreciate it's rich history, complexity and quirks. Take the good with the bad.