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Old 06-11-2011, 04:57 PM
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Galraedia Galraedia is offline
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Default Including LibreOffice Over OpenOffice.org
Due to the current nature of OpenOffice.org, I would like to suggest including the office suite LibreOffice in place of OpenOffice.org in the next release of PC-BSD.
For those unfamiliar with the situation, you can read more at the following:

Oracle and OpenOffice: The Final Insult

Free Software Foundation favors LibreOffice over OpenOffice
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Old 06-11-2011, 05:28 PM
matto matto is offline
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Hey Galraedia,

The Apache Software Foundation is an excellent organization with a great track record. The fact that the Free Software Foundation doesn't like the Apache license definitely shouldn't sway you. They don't like the BSD license, either

Either way, a user can install the PBI for whichever one they prefer.

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Old 06-11-2011, 06:28 PM
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Actually my suggestion doesn't come from any disapproval of the Apache Software Foundation, even though the Apache Foundation has more experience with projects that involve servers and infrastructure than desktop appliances. My suggestion comes from the fact that OpenOffice.org is a sinking ship. They will simply not be able to compete with LibreOffice when it comes to new features, improvements and overall user base.
Oracle's move was stupid and divided the community. And IBM's support for Oracle's decision simply comes from the fact that IBM needs OpenOffice to move forward for the sake of its OpenOffice-based Lotus Symphony office suite. So what does Oracle gain from this move? That's easy – Oracle off-loads OpenOffice.org, for which it has no further use, without damaging its relationship with IBM and other commercial OOo partners. They lose any revenues involved, but apparently they were resigned to losing those anyway. So for Oracle this is all up-side.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:19 PM
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Personally I don't like copyleft licenses, so I'm against the switch.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:27 PM
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Default Including LibreOffice Over OpenOffice.org
This really is a non issue. As long as both are developed and supported,
then we'll keep rolling PBIs of each. Everybody is welcome to run
whichever they like
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Old 06-13-2011, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kmoore134 View Post
This really is a non issue. As long as both are developed and supported,
then we'll keep rolling PBIs of each. Everybody is welcome to run
whichever they like
True, but PC-BSD favors OpenOffice which is why it is included. I'm sure some people like a non-copyleft over a copyleft license since it benefits proprietary software developers (Ex. Apple), however the Apache license is not the type of license the community wants for an office suite. Also, it's not a good idea to piss off the open-source community. I have been on a few Linux and even the FreeBSD forums and PC-BSD is more or less regarded as a joke in the community. And since a lot of people using BSD have followed the path from Windows->Linux->to BSD, I believe that it is wise not to desecrate a stepping stone on the path. Choosing which applications that get included by default can tell people a lot about the developers and their decision making skills.
Besides OpenOffice has fallen behind due to the mismanagement of it by Oracle. Personally, I have used OpenOffice for years. It has always been slow but I still used it. I switched to LibreOffice and it is much faster then any version of OpenOffice I have ever tried. The Document Foundation has worked hard and it would be unfortunate for their work to be rejected over a stupid name. OpenOffice is OpenOffice in name only and the people who developed and worked hard to establish that name are no longer behind it.
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Last edited by Galraedia; 06-13-2011 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:09 PM
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Default Including LibreOffice Over OpenOffice.org
I'm not sure what you mean by "favors". The only thing special we did
was include OO on the install media for 8.2. LO wasn't even available at
that time, so its not like we picked one over the other.

I'm not sure how offering both applications to end-users is going to
"piss off" the open-source community. The only people that would be
offended is the same kind who hate the fact we offer nvidia binary
drivers, or flash. My default stance in situations like this is to offer
maximum freedom to users. If you want to run LO then go for it, if you
like OO then have at it. If you want to use binary NVIDIA drivers,
because they "just work", then I'm by no means going to make things
difficult.

I greatly dislike that some in the open-source community want to get on
their high-horse about freedom, then turn around and restrict the
behavior of users, by removing software, releasing under cumbersome
restrictive licenses, etc. IMHO the spirit of BSD is keeping things
simple and placing little to no restrictions on what you may want to do
with YOUR system and YOUR software, I'll leave that to the Apple and
Android phone carriers.
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:32 PM
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im personally not very happy with the direction oracle took with open solaris and such, but im happy both office packages will be available here. the more options the better imo, plus you never know what options or developement may possibly come later, so having both is a good thing.

at this point i would say im not a huge license advocate. im not really involved enough in developement to have to take a stand on either gnu or bsd style licenses, and it usually hurts my head when i start diving into the particulars of them

for pc-bsd i would have to side with libre office and recommend it as the default packaging office app. my reasoning:

1.marketing; a large number of pc-bsd users, and many new users, are linux converts. nearly every review written mentions the default apps, and when mentioning the office apps the reviewer tends to shine praise toward libre office and frowns on the distros that still package ooo as default. enough time has passed that pretty much every distro i've seen over the past couple of months has gone to libre office.

2.developement; yes both are actively developed, but momentum is clearly with libre office atm. with most of the major distros having already switched over its pretty easy to guess where the main stream developement will be going.
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Old 06-14-2011, 07:30 PM
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Galraedia Galraedia is offline
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Originally Posted by kmoore134 View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by "favors". The only thing special we did
was include OO on the install media for 8.2. LO wasn't even available at
that time, so its not like we picked one over the other.
Sorry for the confusion. What I meant was that PC-BSD favors OpenOffice over any other office suite available, which is why it has been included with PC-BSD since 1.2. I also assumed that you had no intention of changing it.

Originally Posted by kmoore134 View Post
I'm not sure how offering both applications to end-users is going to
"piss off" the open-source community. The only people that would be
offended is the same kind who hate the fact we offer nvidia binary
drivers, or flash. My default stance in situations like this is to offer
maximum freedom to users. If you want to run LO then go for it, if you
like OO then have at it. If you want to use binary NVIDIA drivers,
because they "just work", then I'm by no means going to make things
difficult.
I think Skull Fire put it best when he said, "a large number of pc-bsd users, and many new users, are linux converts," which is what I was mainly referring to. Like I said, a lot of people using BSD went in the order of Windows -> Linux -> BSD. Linux is basically a step for most people in getting to BSD. The Linux community is also good for marketing. How? Just check out any Linux forum and you will often see members recommending FreeBSD, especially to new users since FreeBSD is considered easy to use. However, fewer are likely to recommend PC-BSD.

I can understand and agree with offering proprietary drivers or software when there is no alternative or just not a very good one, but as Skill Fire mentioned most major distributions have switched to LibreOffice. Any user should be able to choose which software he or she would like to use with the least amount of restrictions, however the default software included should always be the best because it reflects what the developer recommends.
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Old 06-18-2011, 11:46 PM
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Here are two articles I read concerning the OO move to the ASF:

http://www.robweir.com/blog/2011/06/...y-fallacy.html

I think the move to Apache was a wonderful move. People who do not want to work on(or use) copyleft software will now have a choice with OO. Plus, whether it is in competition or cooperation, both projects can benefit from each other(look at how good FF4 and Chromium/Chrome are now).

While the Linux community may favor LO as the default office suite, the majority of the world uses Windows and OO is still by far the more well known compared to LO. OO will get plenty of support in no time and will still have the advantage of having the mindshare of all the Windows users who are still using it.

Personally, I don't see a reason to switch just yet.

Last edited by FitzLT; 06-19-2011 at 12:24 AM. Reason: Removed the first news link. Duplicate of the first link in Galraedia's first post.
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