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Old 04-18-2011, 03:47 PM
phpwolf phpwolf is offline
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Default Games for PC-BSD
Hello guys,

I have a solid knoledge in game programming. I started in the past by creating games from 1992 on Z80 machines, and then for DOS, Windows, Linux. I worked for about 7 years for Gameloft on the mobile platforms like J2ME, Symbian, Brew, Windows Mobile and iPhone. For one month, I quit from Gameloft to be much focused on my own projects.

Now, the discussion: I want to help somehow the PC-BSD community, by starting to work at free games for this OS. I like very much the BSD style license and I hate, on the other side, the GPL policy, that is, in my opinion, an anti-developer policy. I hope someday, someone will tell as a real story about his first milion $ made from game seling on PC-BSD

When I said that I have strong knloledge in game programming, I mean I have involved in ~120 game projects in this time. Some of these projects was coordonated by me, so I have a good base with what is needed in order to obtain a good product. So, for now, I wonder if we can starting by creating a small team of graphical artists, game designers, programmers and testers.

Personally, I consider that to be involved in interminable projects, you know, projects from the category called "remake of" (let's say, Quake ramake, Civilization remake and so on) is a bad practice, because these projects are huge and can't be done in a resonable amount of time. This is not great for the freesoftware community, because you will obtain very small progresses on a long period of time.

To be short, here is my plan: to make simple games (let's say, like Flash games) available for PC-BSD.

Are you ready to make together a great team?
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Old 04-18-2011, 11:10 PM
thnewguy thnewguy is offline
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I think it's great you're thinking of creating more games for PC-BSD. But, before you try to put a team together, I think it would help if you had a more specific vision of something you want to create. A clear idea, tasks people can pick up, a website...

Lots of people say "Let's make a game", but very few sit down and put together a clear set of goals and define jobs that people will need to fill.
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:28 PM
phpwolf phpwolf is offline
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@Thnewguy
Yes, you are right. That's why, first of all, let me explain you my point of view regarding the free game programming in general, and, of course, in the second step, I want to propose some solutions.

We know that the game programming takes a lot of time, and I think very few people have enough time to participate, let's say, 6 - 8 hours/day to program free games. With that thoughts in mind, 8 years ago, I started to write a new programming language especially designed for multimedia applications (and, of course, games). These days, the language has enough maturity to be officially released. It works on PC-BSD, Linux, Mac, Windows and iOS (an iPad version with full functional IDE integrated will be released in the next 1 - 2 months). Here is a short list with what this programming language can do:

- portability: same code runs on multiple platforms without need to modify sources
- a strong and flexible programming language, very easy to use by all human beings, not only by the programming guru's
- a complete new reimplementation of the OpenGL concept
- support for creating 3D models from the language itself
- 2D (primitive support) mixed or not with 3D scene
- 3D obj model support + 3ds2Obj converter
- support for TrueType fonts in your applications
- new and innovative 3D selection schema and a great 3D collision support
- mouse, keyboard, user taps (on iOS) support
- embeded movie player to add movies in your application
- a entirelly new movie format that supports transparent frames and a movie encoder tool
- sound decoding in various format
- texture mapping, texture multiplying, transparent texture + movie texture (you can texture both 2D and 3D models with movies)
- various effects such as fog, rain, wind and flames for your scene
- 3D camera for FPS games included (mouse camera support and inertia for the mouse)
- STRONG documentation (a handbook with ~120 examples)
- fullHD support, wii-remote support etc

By example, one game writed entirelly in this programming language is the Sun Blast project, made by my company, OBLONE Software. Here you have a link to the 8.x. PBI.

http://www.pbidir.com/bt/pbi/257/sun_blast

And yes, I want to contribute in a solid meaner to the free software community, not only with words. I plan to release the PC-BSD version of this language quite soon with a special license, and trust me, I want to make cool things for this great community. For now, let's keep things clear: I want to see if there is a REAL interest in the free game programming, to know people who wants to join to this group, to see who can help with what kind of work and so one. Further on, we will made a forum or something to explain the people how to make free games, examples and so one.

I'll post a PC-BSD beta version of this language in about 3 weeks, so if you are interested in this, please, keep an eye on this thread
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:43 PM
netSys netSys is offline
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Exist this post about games...
I think, STEAM is a good solution. if They add OpenGL support for play games.
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:44 PM
bumpty bumpty is offline
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Just because I'm curious would you mind explaining why you think

Quote:
GPL policy, that is, in my opinion, an anti-developer policy
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:10 PM
phpwolf phpwolf is offline
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@bumpty
Well... I must say that this is only a personal point of view, but I'll try to explain it. Please, count that I'm a bad english speaker.

As a developer, sometimes you want to sell your software. Don't know, maybe you have a family, maybe you have a kid or something similar and you want to sell your software to leave in a decent way. In my opinion, the GPL license is very ugly, because if you plan to use GPL code to make your application, your work must be GPL one or something similar. All that stupid things regarding the GPL vs. LGPL license is - in my opinion, again - a hidden trap. Maybe the GNU guys helps you to write a document by offering you his GNU OS, maybe you can use the GNU software to surf on the internet and to chat with your friends, but you can't make proprietary software using GPL tools. This is a very bad thing and I'll try to explain why: nobody wants to make good software and serious things for free. This is a reallity and you can see the results of the GNU policy:

1 - for example, I use Linux from 1996. Linux is born about 20 years ago, but only few projects are good enough or mature enough to be really usefull. Maybe gcc is cool and stable, but gdb is NOT cool comparing to Xcode debugger (of course, debugger from Xcode is gdb based, but Apple was made a cool interface and many people are happy with that interface). Let's be honest, many guys use Visual Studio to write code because is good, is flexible and strong enough. How many people prefer KDEDevelop instead of Visual Studio? See the statistics regarding the used software. Yes, you can tell me that VStudio is used because Microsoft push money to marketing this software. This is only a part of the true - the rest part is that the VStudio is a mature software and is made in the right way.

2 - if you use Ubuntu, don't forget that Canonical spend a lot of money to make Ubuntu as it is - as I said before, good software can be made paying developers and designers to make the thing works fine. If you use Fedora, dont' forget that Red Hat spend a lot of money to make this distro leave. And, of course, If you use PC-BSD, don't forget to thank to the iXsystems. These guys really make things to work.

3 - I don't want to transform GNU people into evil people. I'm not trying to say that the GNU doesn't make nothing. Yes, the GNU make good things, but I don't think you can make serious things only with voluteers. Let's think few minutes at this: what can be wrong if you can buy one license for a Linux library or a Linux tool in order to make a small business by seling your software? What can be so wrong if you could buy a license for, let's say, a library like libbluetooth, to use this library in your application, sell your application, and then, to spend another amount of money to buy licenses for another Linux tools? What can be wrong if you want to give money to the GTK+ team, by example, to obtain a license for this toolkit? If you can pay some money for a GTK+ license, the GTK+ dev-team can use this money to add new and very good developers to make the things shine.

4 - another example: you dont' have enough Linux games. Why? Only few companies wants to start developing Linux games, not because the Linux world is small, they don't want to deal with GPL stupid license and all other GNU restrictions. I don't think Linux users don't want to play games - and please, count the free games from the GNU world, you will see only 30 - 40 good Linux games, the rest 200 - 300 games are only truncated routines, small applications, you can't consider it games.

And all this crap is because "the greatest" GNU philosophy.

Again, I'm so sory, I don't speak english good enough. Please, excuse my bad english.

Last edited by phpwolf; 04-20-2011 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:19 PM
phpwolf phpwolf is offline
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...and yet another thing: many people (like me) are not native english speakers. They are taught by media that the GNU is good and Microsoft is evil. Most of non-native english speakers doesn't even know what GNU License is. If you don't pay some lawyers to study well the GPL, you can fall into the trap to distribute your software with this license, without knowing good enough what it involves. On the other hand, the BSD license is very clear and very non-restrictive. More than that, BSD license is not absurd and agressive with the programmers, like the GPL license.

Last edited by phpwolf; 04-20-2011 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:31 PM
thnewguy thnewguy is offline
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We may be getting a little off track here from the Games idea, but I want to comment briefly on the GPL issue.

Maybe it's a translation issue, or maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded like you're saying software licensed under the GPL must be free of cost. It also sounds like you are saying software created using GPLed tools (like GCC) must be licensed under the GPL too.

I just want to mention that it's entirely possible to create non-GPL programs using GPL-licensed tools. It's also possible to sell software that is licensed under the GPL. There is nothing in the GPL that prevents people from selling their applications.

Maybe you know that I did not understand what you were saying?

I do agree that the GPL isn't always the best license for developers. It has more requirements than other open source licenses (like the BSD license). The GPLv3 license also features some restrictions companies don't like, particularly where lock-down iand patents are concerned.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:37 PM
matto matto is offline
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Default Games for PC-BSD
Hi phpwolf! I agree with what you are saying. Thank you for such a nice
game! We bought a version at work to try out and get the wiimote going
on PC-BSD. It's quite good and we had a great time

If you can get a 64-bit version for 8.1/8.2 compiled and working, we'd
buy at least 10 copies and probably use it as a demo for tradeshows
where we have our FreeBSD/PC-BSD booth setup.

Regards,
-matt
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:15 PM
phpwolf phpwolf is offline
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@thnewguy
Here is a real example, an episode from the Sun Blast wiimote support under Linux. Two years ago, a friend of mine who worked at the wiimote support in our programming language used as a base the libbluetooth to connect the remote via a bluetooth dongle. The code was almost done when our lawyer said that the libbluetooth had GPL license and we can't use it in our game, because our game is a proprietary/closed source game. In those days, I wanted to pay for a libbluetooth license, but the libbluetooth has an interesting story: three programmers worked at libbluetooth project, one of them wants to release this library both commercial and GPL licensed but two of them wants to release this library only with GPL license. That kind of stuff is very annoying for a manager and the project (I mean the Linux port) was blocked for some months due to this stupid thing. I writed some emails to the guys who write the libbluetooth code, but no answers from them. It was very frustrating, not because we can't obtain a libbluetooth licens, but because you don't have the right to buy a license for a GPL piece of code in order to use it in a commercial software. I can easelly understand, let's say, I don't have enough money to buy 100 Macs or 100 Photoshop licenses, but I really don't understand why I can't help with my money a team (for example The GIMP Team) buying some licenses from them just because GNU don't want that. This is an ugly philosophy and it reminds me about the comunism, about the Ceausescu (I'm from Romania).

The final story was that: we discovered the dbus package, that have a convenient license, and we use it instead of libbluetooth.

And one more little thing: in many cases I want to release some code as a free software, not as an opensource software. Anyone can use my code and this don't bother me at all, but the GPL license said that I must share all my sources with others. Why? Why would I want everyone read my sources, adding stuff and modifying my code. And if we talk about games, this is much stupid. I don't get a reason for modifying a gold game release. And let's be honest, for how many times you downloaded sources for a big projects like OpenOffice, QT, Blender or Gimp to modify the sources? Anyway, as you said before, this is not a discussion about the licenses and I don't want to talk infinitelly about GPL license. In fact, I'm here to find people who wants to make free games for PC-BSD.

Last edited by phpwolf; 04-21-2011 at 08:44 PM.
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