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Old 10-21-2008, 10:09 AM
mrhbit mrhbit is offline
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Default PBI compatibility package
Hi @

Is there a package or a function (planned) for compatibility with older packages ?
I use the current PC-BSD release and realized, that packages which was make for 1.x distributions, are not compatible with 7.x . This means all packages have to be rebuild and some of them will never rebuilded.

Or is there a workaround for such things ?

regards
Soeren
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  #2  
Old 10-21-2008, 05:47 PM
TerryP TerryP is offline
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Default Re: PBI compatibility package
By the concepts laid down, PBI made for PC-BSD 1.0RC1 should still work on PC-BSD 7.0.1. In reality, the developers have not (demonstrated that they) give a shit since we had to bark at them to clean up old broken PBI on PBIDir for the 2nd time.


If PBI are not available for PC-BSD 7, best chain of response would probably be:

contact the maintainer
-> if no reply in a week, contact developers saying it is unmaintained
--> if no new pbi released within another week; install from ports or build own pbi and maintain it
---> if still not effective, give up on PBI all together... (I am here)
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  #3  
Old 10-23-2008, 11:00 PM
nico nico is offline
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Default Re: PBI compatibility package
Originally Posted by TerryP
---> if still not effective, give up on PBI all together... (I am here)
I read regularly pcbsd forums during the 14 months (I changed of nickname), and i know how you, TerryP, are present and active.
I'm a bit disappointed that you're not using pbi system anymore.
From my point of view, pcbsd and pbi are so linked, that unmaintained packages are a big issue. And that's worse with so few maintained and updated packages.

I wanna know what are the plans about this. I mean, if there will be an important effort on pbi packages supervision ?
I know about the autobuilded pbi from ports, so why can't we find more pbi directly available ? Is there too few motivated maintainers ? It has been the same problem with the previous version of pcbsd. Many users have pointed out that perhaps, before continuing on the system, offering more maintained pbi should be a priority. So is it worse now ?
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Old 10-24-2008, 04:36 AM
TerryP TerryP is offline
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Default Re: PBI compatibility package
In my humble, or not so humble view as it may be interpreted, I believe the only way to fix it, is to remove the technology from the developers hands.... and I'm not alone in this feeling.


I was invited to attend one of the meetings the PC-BSD developers hold some time ago. They do care, but despite whatever their best efforts are likely to be, I don't expect a meaningful change in regards to PBI technology within the near future (e.g. several releases from now).



When it comes to maintainers, you basically have a chicken and egg problem. Documentation to help them know what they need to do (properly!) and people who actually have a clue what they need to do, without reading the docs. The quality of a PBI, depends on: the programs design being able to be "crammed" into the PBI model, the effort the maintainer / pbi developer put into making it happen, and the PBI Creator (PBC). Generally speaking, PBI/PBC is crap but it does get the job done, you just have to ignore (bad!!! but commonly done) or side step a few issues (annoying, makes maintaining harder), and the devs are little help beyond changing/bending rules to suit themselves or constituents.


The build server is a good idea, when the concept was originally purposed... those of us who advocated the idea were almost laughed at and told it was impossible. One person I know, has called the build server a joke in recent months; I haven't used it so I can't defend it. It is however a good thing in my opinion whatever it's +/-'s may be, because it is producing about the only maintained set of PBI available, despite placing yet more unnecessary work on the PBI developers shoulders.


When it comes to supervision over PBIs, it has always been a joke. Having survived several engagements, all I've seen is incompetence, or conversely mismanagement -- and I am trying to be polite in my choice of words. If a PBI will install and run, it will likely make it's way to www.pbidir.com. Many times I have been tempted to see "just who is watching". If I administered a group of PC-BSD machines for business usage, www.pbidir.com would be blocked from the network.



If they hired people to start making PBI and keying them into the build server, we'd probably have an end to the maintained problem; but we would still have crappy PBI to deal with.



I've seen much to much crap happen, to have any faith left in PBI. I've been stung/seen others stung/found stingers waiting to strike people; to often to use any PBI that I have not personally made, or was made from a source I can trust (there are none of those left now). And I eventually became fed up with wasting my time creating PBI, in a system so surrounded with rubbish. That is what I mean by the last part of '---> if still not effective, give up on PBI all together... (I am here)'



What it would take to change things, the developers seem to be either unaware of, or unwilling to do. As I have said else wheres about maintaince of PC-BSD releases, they have generally been maintained for a few months or so, roughly as long as it takes for work to start on the 'next release'.
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Old 10-24-2008, 06:33 AM
farvardin farvardin is offline
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Default Re: PBI compatibility package
so why are you using PCBSD if you don't use PBI yourself?

(I know pcbsd is not only about pbi, but it's a major technology in it)
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2008, 07:23 PM
Protagonist Protagonist is offline
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Default Re: PBI compatibility package
Originally Posted by farvardin
so why are you using PCBSD if you don't use PBI yourself?

(I know pcbsd is not only about pbi, but it's a major technology in it)
I can't answer for Terry, but I use the ports more than I do PBI myself. I use PC-BSD because it gives me an out of the box stable FreeBSD desktop with the option to install software the way I choose. :-)
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Old 10-24-2008, 08:20 PM
mal.exe mal.exe is offline
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Default Re: PBI compatibility package
erm...

I think Terry does not use PC-BSD anymore. I have stopped using it too.. years ago.

I think we are still here because we someway beleive in the project. It will, one day see the light :P
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Old 10-24-2008, 09:01 PM
farvardin farvardin is offline
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Default Re: PBI compatibility package
I use much pkg_add myself, but I find the ideas behind pcbsd interesting. You can also get more recent packages with pbi than with ports or pkg_add.
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  #9  
Old 10-25-2008, 06:58 PM
TerryP TerryP is offline
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Default Re: PBI compatibility package
I stopped using PC-BSD a long time ago. Shuffling through my live journal, I even found the switch over date, 2008-06-26. As I've said in various posts in other threads, I've used PC-BSD 1.0RC1 through 1.5.1.x, but I don't think I've mentioned that previously in this thread.


When I first used PC-BSD, I used PBI a lot and made a few from software that I wanted to use. After all, if I was going to use the program, why not share a PBI of it with others? Eventually, I gave up on PBC (the PBi Creator), posting here somewhere that I would no longer maintain the PBI I had made, nor release any new ones with any intention of maintaining them. I tried to search down the thread for a reference, but can't find it... To bad this forum doesn't allow search by thread name for generic terms. Before or after that point, I essentially gave up on using PBI all together for my software needs, and began managing my systems software the same way as I did my own system -- as a FreeBSD machine. Once, I think I tried to get back into PBI development, but was generally ignored, as PBIDirs quality control got even worse then in my day; then started arguing for reform, along with many others here (at the time).


Rather then wait for PC-BSD 7, which may or may not have had published early alpha releases to the testing mailing list yet... Either way, it's been around four months since I made the switch, from PC-BSD 1.5.1.x to FreeBSD 7.0. I had had enough of the PC-BSD developers poor release engineering and switched, to a system that does do a decent job of releasing and maintaining a system.



I've even computated leaving this forum on many occasions, especially now that PC-BSD 7.0.x is out, and I lack a suitable 'test' environment to deal with many PC-BSD specific issues, that can't be reconned via commu with the original poster or gleaned from PC-BSDs Subversion repository. Which is why I've been much less helpful with PC-BSD 7 users, then I was to users of past releases.


But I am still here, because it's this or Ubuntu... for the best chance of a unix like on the desktop in large scales, at least that is what I believed when I made my choice to stick around at various points (circa PC-BSD 1.11a, 1.3, and 1.4.x).
I would much rather see such a successful system be a BSD based one then a Linux distro. But these days, I think I'd rather see Ubuntu or SUSE become it, since OSX is unlikely to do so just yet.


You could say, I've lost faith in many ways with the PC-BSD project....... but I've yet to fade away into the shadow.
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  #10  
Old 10-27-2008, 11:17 AM
mrhbit mrhbit is offline
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Default Re: PBI compatibility package
Amen!
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