Newbie friendly - PC-BSD Forums

David30 · #1 06-14-2012, 10:21 PM

I hope I can help in any way that I can. I'm not a programmer, but I have been using computers for years. I like PC-BSD and it can only get better and better.

Here's what I consider the "golden rule" when you wish to make an operating system user-friendly (yes this does sound a bit "rude" - but it's TRUE!): assume the user is stupid and does *not* know what they are doing.

Yes that's right! I know it sounds harsh, but it's true. Many "newbie" users don't know what they're doing on the computer and they get confused very easily, they click on the wrong buttons etc. It's always the "newbie" type of users who get tricked into installing malware on Windows for instance. I have witnessed this many times! Everything "technical" has to be done for them, with simple GUI screens that hide the complexity underneath.

Let's make PC-BSD the best desktop operating system the world has ever seen.

It can be done. Let's prove that to the world by doing it.

Emegra · #2 06-15-2012, 01:03 PM

assume the user is stupid and does *not* know what they are doing. we have windows for that but seriously I think one of the attractions of linux for me was the configurability, creating another windows like system where the operating system does everything for you would possibly take away that configurability not to mention some of the fun,

Moving from Windows to Linux was a huge learning curve for me and I'm still learning but I enjoy it because it's learnable and it's logical (friendly) in my experience PC-BSD is none of these things I've found it confusing, frustrating & contradictory (unfriendly) although there is somthing very attractive about it so all I would ask is they make it learnable for someone with an average iq who has not spent 4 or 5 years at some university studying computer science because it has so many good qualities and I want to use it

Graeme

David30 · #3 06-15-2012, 06:16 PM

I believe PC-BSD could offer people the "home desktop" type of operating system, like Windows did back in the early and mid 'nineties. For *nix experts, they would probably use FreeBSD or an advanced Linux distro. The "expert" users already have plenty of choice, but non-experts only have 2 choices of user-friendly (desktop) operating systems - which are also widely supported: Windows and Mac OS X. Could PC-BSD and Ubuntu offer 2 more choices?

DarkPhoenix · #4 06-17-2012, 05:00 AM

I agree David.

Everything should be dummy proof. I can only use PC-BSD at all because I have played with enough Linux distros over the past few years and gotten used to some of the unix like ways of doing things.

Some Linux distros can work out of the box for say a Windows or a Mac user very easy like Zorin OS, PCLinux and Mint (in that order) In most cases you never have to see a terminal window and that's the way a desktop Linux system should be. Everything you would want to do should already be familiar to a windows or mac user.

Now the antagonist of this idea will counter with, " But, you always have to have a learning curve, even windows has a learning curve" True to a point but that curve should be as minimal as possible. These days setting up and using a desktop system should not be a chore.

I came across a post where a guy was asking if he should install windows inside of Linux through a virtual machine. Someone who had a very large and seemingly knowledgeable answer said,

" If you want to work on the Linux kernel, making hardware drivers for devices in your computer, and occasionally write some software for Windows and test it on a good approximation of a "standard" Windows system then it may be you are better of with Linux as a host and Windows as a guest."

I replied, " WHAT?? Is THIS what you really think people who use Linux actually DO with Linux??

YOU need a Reality Check. Only the really hard core geeks do this stuff.. 99% of all Linux users want a desktop operating system that's, free, easy to use, open source and an OS that's more highly configurable to their liking to: work, communicate with friends and family via social networks, play games, watch movies, browse the web - all the things Windows users use their OS for. They want a FUN OS.

You make it sound like Linux users have to all be boring hard core geeks. You Sir, are insulting to the Linux community as a whole. You should just pull out your VT 100 terminal cus like, you need it man. Here, have a Timex Sinclair and Ti-99 to play with."

This is the image we need for PC-BSD that it's not just for geeks anymore. I think Kris is doing very well towards this end. Have you seen FreeBSD in it's natural form? I'd run kicking and screaming from the arena. I think PC-BSD is good enough for any desktop user willing to learn the curve.

If Wine ever gets it right so we can install direct X on PC-BSD and run all Windows type games as an OS it will appeal to a larger audience.
If PC-BSD could run windows games, this would be the One Thing it has over Linux and be THE catalyst to cause it to push ahead of Linux and into the hearts of millions.

Cobalt · #5 06-17-2012, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix

If Wine ever gets it right so we can install direct X on PC-BSD and run all Windows type games as an OS it will appeal to a larger audience.
If PC-BSD could run windows games, this would be the One Thing it has over Linux and be THE catalyst to cause it to push ahead of Linux and into the hearts of millions.

I'm not a Wine expert, but I don't think that Direct X is the problem. I've played a lot of hardware-intensive games with Wine. Most problems have to do with libraries and can be overcome using WineHQ's database as a guide. I also don't think that being able to run Windows games would make people flock to PC-BSD.

DarkPhoenix · #6 06-17-2012, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Cobalt

I also don't think that being able to run Windows games would make people flock to PC-BSD.

But that is the last holdout for an OS. Sure you can install direct x in Linux and get some games to work with tweaking, some work better than others, many dont work at all. My point is to leave no stone unturned. If someone can make PC-BSD work with windows games as well as they do on windows then gamers who stick with windows won't have that excuse anymore not to try PC-BSD.

I'm a gamer. I can never be free of windows because of this. For times when I dont want to play games I can switch to PC-BSD but that gets old fast. Why switch when I already have windows that will do everything I want? Good gaming in PC-BSD could then offer more incentive to stick with it for tons of holdouts.

Now we are telling people, see, here is this desktop OS that can do anything you want it to do - except play popular games. Even if your only a casual game player, this is a huge turnoff. People have kids and spouses.. they need good gaming and multimedia ability even if they dont use them often. Systems like Linux and FreeBSD/PC-BSD largely appeal to non gamers. A rise in the popularity of the Mac is due to there now being many more games made for it. It just pays to cover all your bases.

Emegra · #7 06-17-2012, 08:51 AM

Personally I think it would be a good thing if PC-BSD simply got the basics right first and learn to walk before it runs.

Give average pc users a fighting chance to perform what should be simple tasks such as connecting to a network and automounting shares without having to type endless lines of code into the terminal and screwing up configuration files to the point where the whole system's unworkable.

Maybe that way anyone who tries it out is not left frustrated to the point where he/she never wants to lay eyes on PC-BSD ever again because it's one thing getting people to try it out it's another getting people to stick with it

Graeme

David30 · #8 06-17-2012, 06:12 PM

Maybe these PC-BSD forums could be on the FreeBSD website? I know that FreeBSD is what PC-BSD uses underneath. If the developers of FreeBSD could get some ideas on how to develop a user-friendly desktop OS, then you attract the developers' attention into making this a reality with PC-BSD.

Do you think these forums should be on the FreeBSD website - linked to from this PC-BSD website?

fluca1978 · #9 06-20-2012, 03:50 PM

I don't believe the gaming is an issue for either Linux or BSDs. When I want to game I use Windows, when I want to work or surf the web I use Linux or PCBSD (depending on which computer I'm using). I don't see Unix being the gaming platform for home users, I see it being a gaming gateway or server instead.
And I don't think this forums should be on the FreeBSD site, since the latter is much more "sysadmins" oriented than PCBSD is. However. I'd like to have all the BSD related forums to be co-hosted so that a single account can open to the wide BSD world.

David30 · #10 06-20-2012, 06:42 PM

I definitely think the PC-BSD forums should be on the FreeBSD website. When users need help with PC-BSD, the FreeBSD developers could also help out, especially when reporting bugs. Users only have to say that they are newbies and the FreeBSD people won't talk in technical jargon.

Consider 10 years ago that Linux was far from "user friendly". I feel that since Ubuntu was released and it's become popular, Linux experts are able to help out new users with clear step-by-step instructions. If you want PC-BSD to become popular, newbies need the right help from the experts, including the FreeBSD developers. A bug in PC-BSD could be a bug in FreeBSD itself e.g. a hardware issue.