Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-16-2012, 04:47 AM
Ole Juul Ole Juul is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Coalmont, BC, Canada
Posts: 284
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Forum usage as advocacy
I notice that there is actually a lot of PC-BSD exposure out there. Anybody who is likely to try it, has probably heard of it. What there isn't a lot of is Googlability of problems. Compare FreeBSD where a simple net search will often lead to their forum and a useful answer. Dru mentioned the importance of documentation in another advocacy post, and I agree, but easy accessibility to community might be even more beneficial to the actual promotion of this OS.

I think that this forum is perhaps one of our best advocady tools to attract users. The low participation here is probably not encouraging and perhaps even a disincentive to newcomers. How many posts go unanswered? Lots. The membership list has thousands of single post users. I look in here to see how things a going and when I come back 4 to 8 hours later, there's no change. Weekends are almost dead. This is very depressing for a newcomer. It also doesn't look good to those just browsing in to see about this OS.

I am not suggesting that those that do participate, particularly those who a making contributions in other ways, should do more - although perhaps a little more attention to keeping things going may be an easy contribution for some. What I would like to suggest is that some effort to promote the use of this forum could be beneficial. Could a link, and perhaps other encouragement or mention, be provided in other places? I'm thinking of on the download page, at time of installation, at boot-up time. I don't know, but it seems like if there are 30,000 users (and I think over 1/3 of those speak English) then there should be more activity here. And more friends made.

Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-16-2012, 08:25 AM
fluca1978 fluca1978 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 364
Thanks: 3
Thanked 22 Times in 16 Posts
Default
While your statements are pretty obvious, I must admit that I agree with the forum participation: it should be more!
With regard to un-answered posts there must be another consideration: PCBSD is a OS that aims to end users with little Unix experience, while FreeBSD is something that is aimed to more experienced users, or at least someone that has the will to read all the documentation. Therefore, here users usually post some claim message without enough details to allow for a (quick) answer.
By the way, I hope that everyone here is going to do a hand-by-hand help. After all having to post a few posts per day is not that much effort!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-17-2012, 09:51 AM
Weixiong Weixiong is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 175
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default
I agree it's a sad state of affairs and wasn't always like this. It used to be an active, vibrant community. Check out some of the posts from when I first got here. People posting screenshots, joking around, etc. but there's only so much a few people can do. I've tried to liven things up, look at my goofy thread about getting junky old computers going. I didn't have to share that.

I've been around, although intermittently, for 7 years and it's frustrating for me when I post a question, however minor it might be, and don't get an answer. And I can get my system up and running. I can only imagine how someone new to PC-BSD and FreeBSD in general must feel when they're trying to get set up and having problems.

Last edited by Weixiong; 04-17-2012 at 10:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:53 PM
thedaemonofid thedaemonofid is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Birmingham, AL, USA
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default
Well, here I am joining in. I hope to be an active member of the forum. I plan on setting up my main desktop workstation with PC-BSD and a network server with FreeBSD. So I should have plenty of questions, and possibly even a few answers. I do have experience with BSD but it's mainly been a hobby and I haven't really used FreeBSD since version 6 or so I think. But I'm back. Once I figure out how to get Blender SVN compiled I will work on PBI's for it as well, to break my PC-BSD cherry so to speak.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:34 AM
fluca1978 fluca1978 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 364
Thanks: 3
Thanked 22 Times in 16 Posts
Default
I believe that a problem of the forum systems, not strictly tied to this forum, is that there are too much forums for similar products. At the moment I'm following the FreeBSD forums, the PCBSD forums and the FreeNAS forums since these are products I use and I care of. While I consider myself a quite polite user, and I resist the temptation to cross post to different forums, I must admit that sometimes it is easier to find the solution to a problem related to PCBSD or FreeNAS into the FreeBSD forums. It is not that these forums are not good enough, but simply the mainstream OS gets more attention, and therefore a wider user list. I'm not sure that merging the forums is the right choice, since it could bring more chaos than order, and I don't want to have PCBSD developers always present on the forums (I'm glad they spend their time developing instead of writing posts), but I hope some gurus will be more present on the forums too. In the meantime I encourage myself and all other community members and believers of this project to be active on the forums, either proposing solutions or trying to "guess" solutions to someone else problems, or just promoting their experience and considerations. All this is to contribute to the Open Source spirit of the project.

This is my personal opinion, I hope nobody is going to misunderstand my words.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:02 AM
Ole Juul Ole Juul is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Coalmont, BC, Canada
Posts: 284
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default
Originally Posted by fluca1978
In the meantime I encourage myself and all other community members and believers of this project to be active on the forums, either proposing solutions or trying to "guess" solutions to someone else problems, or just promoting their experience and considerations. All this is to contribute to the Open Source spirit of the project.
Exactly what I was suggesting as "advocacy". We're on the same page there.

However, I was also asking if encouraging new users to come here would not be beneficial toward a general goal of getting some critical mass. There may be better ways than my suggestions, but I think finding some ways to get people here, as well as keeping them, is in order.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-16-2012, 06:34 PM
DarkPhoenix DarkPhoenix is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 65
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default
I think yes, this forum should promote PC-BSD better in advocacy but this only comes with many many users. Forum users are a drop in the bucket compared to the actual people using the system - in most cases. This is because many users are simply not posters.

Now if the product is new or un popular sure your not going to get as many posters but I think PC-BSD has other problems - it has an image problem.

Hard core FreeBSD users may not use PC-BSD because they are used to their system and like the way it works. PC-BSD is BSD yes, but a more desktop oriented user friendly kind - this wont appeal to hard core FreeBSD users, they will look at it like a step back.

Linux is also at fault. Not the Linux kernel or any system using it but Linux as a term and icon in popular culture. Linux is the non windows alternative in most peoples minds. There were lots of hype about the kernel and distros using it that PC-BSD or even FreeBSD did not have. There are movies about Linus. There are no movies about the creators of BSD.

This is what PC-BSD needs the most, an image makeover. Do that and they will come - in droves.
__________________
I'd put a banner here, If I only know how.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-16-2012, 10:07 PM
David30 David30 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 325
Thanks: 20
Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
Default
Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix View Post
Linux is the non windows alternative in most peoples minds. There were lots of hype about the kernel and distros using it that PC-BSD or even FreeBSD did not have. There are movies about Linus. There are no movies about the creators of BSD.

This is what PC-BSD needs the most, an image makeover. Do that and they will come - in droves.

Ask yourself: how did Linus and Linux become famous, with all the attention today? Could PC-BSD and/or FreeBSD do the same?

Spread the word and show the world there is *another* alternative to Windows that's reliable and fast - PC-BSD, based on FreeBSD.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-16-2012, 11:02 AM
P2O2 P2O2 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cracow, Poland
Posts: 39
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default
Originally Posted by David30 View Post
Ask yourself: how did Linus and Linux become famous, with all the attention today? Could PC-BSD and/or FreeBSD do the same?
Hi,

David30, the above questions are contradicting each other. If you really knew the Linux kernel history you'd probably haven't written the second question.

There was GNU operating system without kernel as the Hurd was still in a development state. And out of a hat there came Mr Linus Torvalds with his kernel known as Linux now. He found himself in the right place at the right time, only to resolve the only Achilles' heel of the GNU project. Everyone jumped into the "Linux" bandwagon then. And the rest is history as they say.

GNU/Linux has sprung into existence in sort of bottom-top manner as it was pushed up by the genuine grassroots movement. Unix has come down from the heights of "university elite levels".

To get the same results you would have to have zillions of $ to build BSD brand through e.g. zillions of TV ads etc.

Any PR activity on behalf of BSD community is a painstaking process now and it will stay it forever unless someone come out with a brilliant idea how to brainwash people in a very short time. Not mentioning the advertized product(s) would have to be usable at least on par with the best GNU/Linux distributions.

Regards
__________________
Przemysław Pawełczyk [P2O2] (pron. Pshemislav Paveltchik)
P2O2's GnuPG key ID: 3142288E
--
* DO NOT use "corporate spy machines" like Google, Facebook and Twitter!
* DO make use of GnuPG, Tor and DuckDuckGo, always!

Last edited by P2O2; 07-16-2012 at 05:17 PM. Reason: grammar correction
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-16-2012, 04:46 PM
mwatkins mwatkins is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 13
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default
Until *BSD has working suspend and resume on commonly sold current laptops and desktops (those supporting ACPI), marketing to the broader public is, in my opinion, pointless.

For mobile users suspend and resume is a must-have feature. For many desktop users - likewise.

In contrast various Linux distributions put a decent looking UI in front of the user, recognize most if not all their hardware with no user intervention, and support core machine capabilities like ACPI / suspend and resume. These distributions, with ancillary user focused software, make for a productive system that feels like what they may be moving away from (Windows) and/or is complete enough to be a first and only system.

I've been a BSD user for many years. I love the OS, know it decently well, and have it deployed on a bunch of servers in various locations around the world. For quite a few years I've used it as the core for my workstation/desktop. When I started travelling more for work and pleasure I found myself compelled to abandon BSD *on my laptop* and run a Linux flavour to get a reliable suspend and resume. I'm *this close* to doing the same (abandoning BSD) on a very high end desktop I've recently built up, because I don't want it churning away at night and other times when I am not at the keyboard.

Despite some amount of research and testing I've still not been able to make my Intel Sandy Bridge based desktop suspend and resume reliably when running FreeBSD|PC-BSD even though it does so "out of the box" on several Linux distributions I have evaluated in the past and on this machine in the present. Being highly motivated to make it work on FreeBSD I've so far stuck with it but at some point I'm going to have to stop investing that time and redirect that so far wasted effort into productive pursuits.

I've read that better ACPI support is noted as an objective for FreeBSD but getting there doesn't seem to be a high priority. Given the deep server roots of the OS, this isn't too much of a surprise.

Were any *BSD OS ready, today - for a more broad population than dedicated *BSD fans like ourselves - to replace desktop friendly OS distributions like Ubuntu or Mint and the like, marketing wouldn't be a problem.

I have to admit that until recently I've paid very little attention to PC-BSD. I too was very server-focused. But my thinking has changed of late. It seems to me only logical that more attention should be placed on making BSD desktop/laptop (and ultimately *Mobile) friendly, to broaden the user population, keep the donations and support lifeblood flowing, all of which will ultimately better support *BSD as the terrific server OS that it is.

Last edited by mwatkins; 07-16-2012 at 04:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright 2005-2010, The PC-BSD Project. PC-BSD and the PC-BSD logo are registered trademarks of iXsystems.
All other content is freely available for sharing under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License.