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View Full Version : A media player with codecs on default install


Charles
12-29-2005, 07:30 PM
Wouldn't it make sense to have a media player with codecs on default install?

I think we could remove Noatun and have Amarok and KMPlayer + the codecs instead...

cb22
12-30-2005, 09:21 AM
So there i was... check out all the cool little python tidbits when i came across...
http://www.pymedia.org/tut/index.html
Seems to be really cool, if someone can work on a hot gui for me in PS or GIMP, i'll be happy to code and impliment it. I've already gotten it to play all my videos and music, so i could make one killer multimedia app!

Charles
12-30-2005, 02:18 PM
Do you mean you only need to create the GUI ?

cb22
12-30-2005, 04:26 PM
Yeah all i need is a nice gui, then i can just basically import the pymedia modules, add a playlist and command line arg function and you'll have a media player!

lazyilmaz
12-30-2005, 05:46 PM
I'll try to make a simple gui :wink:

Charles
12-30-2005, 08:36 PM
Gosh! That sounds good! How many weeks will you still need to complete the server manager? Then we could work on the media player :)

Could we have all the features Windows Media Player has? We could name it "PC-BSD Media Player", and could it read MP3s, DVDs and WMV files?

:roll:

lazyilmaz
12-30-2005, 09:36 PM
here you go

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2077/mediaplayer3ww.png


how long has konqueror been a media player?

damn it i dont want a FileviewerWebBrowserFtpViewerMediaPlayer

there has to be a point where you say stop! otherwise we end up KDE being made up of just one thing... Konqueror

:roll:

Tsuroerusu
12-30-2005, 10:38 PM
Gosh! That sounds good! How many weeks will you still need to complete the server manager? Then we could work on the media player :)

Could we have all the features Windows Media Player has? We could name it "PC-BSD Media Player", and could it read MP3s, DVDs and WMV files?

:roll:
DVDs and Windows Media are very problematic because it's illegal to use those codecs in the US! Especially libdvdcss, it violates the DMCA, and distributing the w32codecs package violates a lot of Microsoft's patents.

By the way, you guys should take a look at KPlayer (http://kplayer.sourceforge.net/), IMHO it's way better than KMPlayer! It might need a little bit of polish since it hasn't been updated for a little while, but it's just so much more seemless to use, especially the File --> Open stuff....

Charles
12-30-2005, 10:58 PM
That looks cool...
I had a look at their home page and its features... What features does it have that KMPlayer doesn't?

Tsuroerusu
12-30-2005, 11:41 PM
That looks cool...
I had a look at their home page and its features... What features does it have that KMPlayer doesn't?
It's not exactly features I'm reffering to, it's more the way the application is put together. For example, if you go to File --> Open, the way you open new files are weird, and iratating to use IMHO, with KPlayer, when you pick File --> Open you get a regular KDE file dialog and select the file you want and off you go. Also the last time I tried KMPlayer, whenever I double clicked a video file it would open a new session of KMPlayer, which really annoyed me because I couldn't have one video playing and double click another in Konqueror and the current video would be stopped and the double clicked one automatically started, which was kind of a pain in the butt. I've adjusted KPlayer to it only has the File, View, Player, Playlist... toolbar, so it's very simple to look at. For example , back when I was still using Windows, I preffered the old stripped down Windows Media Player 6 (Or even better then open source Media Player Classic imitation of it) instead of the clunky and bloated newer versions which took forever to start up and had ads and crap.

Charles by the way, in PC-BSD how come the KDE programs have a seperate menu section in the KMenu? Isn't that a little confusing to users?

I think we could remove Noatun and have Amarok and KMPlayer + the codecs instead...
I think that's a great idea, amaroK is a brilliant music player, and then if we have a very simple video player that's not acting weird, like Noatun sometimes are, then I think PC-BSD would be a good platform for multimedia (We just need a PBI for libdvdcss and w32codecs and all that stuff hosted over here in europe and let it be widely know: "Hey you can download the codecs from overseas and then you're in business" :P ).

myurko
12-31-2005, 01:33 AM
So there i was... check out all the cool little python tidbits when i came across...
http://www.pymedia.org/tut/index.html
Seems to be really cool, if someone can work on a hot gui for me in PS or GIMP, i'll be happy to code and impliment it. I've already gotten it to play all my videos and music, so i could make one killer multimedia app!

We don't need to reinvent the wheel. There are already perfecly good video players out ther such as VLC. My vote is for VLC mainly because VLC is the only open source player I know of that can play H.264 (although the site lists this as "experimental", I has never had a single issue with it).

Tsuroerusu
12-31-2005, 01:58 AM
So there i was... check out all the cool little python tidbits when i came across...
http://www.pymedia.org/tut/index.html
Seems to be really cool, if someone can work on a hot gui for me in PS or GIMP, i'll be happy to code and impliment it. I've already gotten it to play all my videos and music, so i could make one killer multimedia app!

We don't need to reinvent the wheel. There are already perfecly good video players out ther such as VLC. My vote is for VLC mainly because VLC is the only open source player I know of that can play H.264 (although the site lists this as "experimental", I has never had a single issue with it).
MPlayer and Xine can do that too if you install the x264 libary, but again that has a huge risk for patent violations if it's something that was included with PC-BSD. This whole multimedia thing is a mess! :?

Charles
12-31-2005, 02:09 AM
If you use ffmpeg you can read all these proprietary videos (avi, mp3, asf, wmv, ram, qt...) and you aren't using any proprietary codec, ffmpeg is a reverse-ingeneered open-source set of codecs :)

Tsuroerusu
12-31-2005, 03:50 AM
If you use ffmpeg you can read all these proprietary videos (avi, mp3, asf, wmv, ram, qt...) and you aren't using any proprietary codec, ffmpeg is a reverse-ingeneered open-source set of codecs :)
You can reverse engineeer all you want, but in the US you can patent ideas on software, the Trash bin in Windows is actually patented by Apple. And Microsoft of course has patents on Windows Media, so it's not legal to even provide playback EVEN if you use non Microsoft code. Also ffmpeg is not some kind of codec it is, and quoting this off their website, "FFmpeg is a complete solution to record, convert and stream audio and video. It includes libavcodec, the leading audio/video codec library.". You can read about their legal issues here: http://ffmpeg.sourceforge.net/legal.php

pcbsdusr
12-31-2005, 05:02 AM
what about making noatun work for a change???

cb22
12-31-2005, 12:44 PM
Well, PyMedia is based off FFMpeg, and this media player wouldn't be included by defaut, but in the install you'd have the option to install it, with a whole long boring disclamer ( which nobody will actually read... ;) Also with the dvd playback, i'm not quite sure BUT wouldn't / shouldn't it be legal to use? I mean its not like we are using it for ripping DVD's, only fair use playback. But then again here in south africa Microsoft have a patent on XML... Also with regards to all my other projects, unfortunatly my laptops hdd is messed, and i only have access to a wndows machine so i cant really carry on wth them for the time being. And i'm sick just to top off my day :(

Tsuroerusu
12-31-2005, 12:47 PM
what about making noatun work for a change???
Well, it doesn't work, as is a big pain in the ass sometimes, that's a good reason for replacing it with amaroK and some other video player.

skrowl
01-03-2006, 07:28 PM
I'm going to agree with the VLC proponents on this one.

No patent issues, no external codecs, no problems. 8)

Tsuroerusu
01-03-2006, 07:49 PM
I'm going to agree with the VLC proponents on this one.

No patent issues, no external codecs, no problems. 8)
LOL; you bet VLC violates patents, if you look at what dependencies it has, you'll see what I mean: http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-sources.html

richard.a
01-11-2006, 09:52 AM
You know what steenks over this DRM (or whatever) stuff over the codecs?

You own the DVD player, right?

You own the computer you have installed it inside, right?

You own the CD that came with the DVD player with all the drivers and codecs that the manufacturer provided with the player, right? Admittedly they are only for one of many operating systems.

But should not the manufacturer be forced (in law) to provide a generic playback support for open source OS's?

You own the DVD you want to play, or you have rented it from a library, right?

Meaning you have a legal right to play it on any machine whatsoever in exchange for the rental or purchase fee you paid, right?

How is it that with all that ownership in your favour, (my favour), you (I) cannot use the articles which you (I) bought with a reasonable expectation of being able to use, without being in breach of the law?

I know that is making it over simplistic, but seriously, isn't the scenario I have just painted true?

Lawyers appear to exist solely for complicating the reasoning process at an inversely proportionate profit percentage... or something like that, imho :D

I rest my case your honour. Now please can you tell the bailiff to remove my leg irons? Thankee :)

Richard in Australia

Tsuroerusu
01-11-2006, 02:58 PM
You know what steenks over this DRM (or whatever) stuff over the codecs?
Yeah, it takes away the "Fair Use" rights that the US law actually do grant it's citizens.

You own the DVD player, right?
If we're talking about a consumer electronics DVD player, you own the physical box, but not the codecs and software used inside of it.

You own the computer you have installed it inside, right?
Yes, you indeed do own the computer

You own the CD that came with the DVD player with all the drivers and codecs that the manufacturer provided with the player, right?
You own the physical CD, but not the software, you heard the confusing term "Intellectual property" before? That is what it means, if you have Windows installed on your box you don't own Windows, you own a license to Windows, not the actual operating system.

But should not the manufacturer be forced (in law) to provide a generic playback support for open source OS's?
LOL, the law doesn't consider the average end user more important than the guys in the suits.

You own the DVD you want to play, or you have rented it from a library, right?
Again, in case you went out a bought a DVD disc, you own the physical plastic disc, but not the content, that is the property of Hollywood, in most cases, Bollywoord would be the indian film industry ;)

Meaning you have a legal right to play it on any machine whatsoever in exchange for the rental or purchase fee you paid, right?
You probably do, but the DMCA explicitly forbids "the process of reverse engineering and/or disabling copy protection schemes", and since libdvdcss actually "cracks" the copy protection, it is 100% illegal in the US, here in Denmark it's legal because the danish law allows the cracking of copy protection if it's absolutely necessary in order to play the medium.

How is it that with all that ownership in your favour, (my favour), you (I) cannot use the articles which you (I) bought with a reasonable expectation of being able to use, without being in breach of the law?
I'll tell you why, because the congress sleeps in the same bed, and probably more, as the MPAA and RIAA, they lobby to screw the consumer, the only thing they care about is being able to charge people money for excercising their "Fair Use" rights, which becomes illegal because of the totally appaulingly bad copyright laws of the US.

I know that is making it over simplistic, but seriously, isn't the scenario I have just painted true?
LOL, no it isn't, why do you think almost no Linux distribution developed in the US includes DVD playback (Linspire does because they have paid for the license to do it with a legal DVD player, which doesn't use libdvdcss) ??? Because it's illegal dude!


Lawyers appear to exist solely for complicating the reasoning process at an inversely proportionate profit percentage... or something like that, imho :D
Well, with copyright laws like those in the US, you can become the next Bill Gates by being a good lawyers for the RIAA, and probably get a good b*****b from Jenna Jameson at the same time.

richard.a
01-11-2006, 07:24 PM
Well, yes :)

Actually, it was written very "tongue-in-cheek" :) The purpose was to show in logical fashion that really the end-user gets the wrong end of the stick.

Interestingly I believe that it isn't everywhere in the world where you don't actually own the software.

I remember here in Australia that some years ago it was established in law that you own what you pay for - the plastic disk AND the contents. Totally. That includes whatever is inside appliance boxes that contain software, too.

Under Australian consumer law, a customer has a right to expect a piece of equipment to do what it is stated to do. In this case to play DVDs. All DVDs.

Wonder if that has been challenged here, because without the codecs etc, there is no way it can do so. We have consumer affairs officers employed by the government in every state, whose job it is is to police these laws and force compliance upon suppliers whose products do not stack up against coinsumers' expectations.

Wonder if any other countries have challenged this situation?

Richard in Australia

Tsuroerusu
01-11-2006, 08:12 PM
I remember here in Australia that some years ago it was established in law that you own what you pay for - the plastic disk AND the contents. Totally. That includes whatever is inside appliance boxes that contain software, too.
Well in that case, why do people get sued for ripping their CDs and sharing it on the internet? If they own the content, they should be able to copy it to their heart's content.


Wonder if that has been challenged here, because without the codecs etc, there is no way it can do so. We have consumer affairs officers employed by the government in every state, whose job it is is to police these laws and force compliance upon suppliers whose products do not stack up against coinsumers' expectations.
The problem is that finding out of the w32codecs and libdvdcss, and various other controversial libaries actually could be distributed would require a BIG army of lawyers and visits to court to actually find out.

richard.a
01-11-2006, 08:31 PM
I remember here in Australia that some years ago it was established in law that you own what you pay for - the plastic disk AND the contents. Totally. That includes whatever is inside appliance boxes that contain software, too.
Well in that case, why do people get sued for ripping their CDs and sharing it on the internet? If they own the content, they should be able to copy it to their heart's content.
I don't remember a case in Australia like that, regarding ripping.

The sharing of music has always been a difficult copyright problem, and the equivalent of the RIAA here has been heavy on those who allegedly cost musicians' their profit margin on sales. But we all know it is really about the much larger profit the recording companies make. My son is a musician who earns his living in Europe, and his comments are very interesting on this subject. http://www.gwynashton.com if you like rock and blues, he plays his own compositions..

Sure, they have busted pirates using stolen software - software that has been unlawfully provided, for example AutoCAD - and that was some years ago. More recently, dealers selling computers with Microsoft oem OS and office products, without supplying the customers with the actual oem software.

And Microsoft succesfully prevented the refurbishment and distribution of old operating systems on old computers recycled for donation to needy and underprivileged users. However, Mr.Gates then gave a huge cheque donation to the Australian federal government, to be used for - have you guessed it? - buying new Microsoft software for these charities doing the recycling. To run on old machines? What a joke.

And they have busted street market vendors selling bootleg movie titles and CD titles.

But I don't remember seeing (in Australia) anything like what you described. Maybe the laws are sufficiently different from your Danmark, and the Americans' USA to prevent it. I don't know the answer, but was trying to open the topic for serious discussion on how, perhaps, this monopoly can be broken.

RobNyc
02-15-2006, 05:17 PM
I voted I dont know, but I've yet to see any player with full codecs without any headaches. Hopefully we can do this on pcbsd =]

gigaforce
05-28-2006, 12:57 PM
maybe put the new media player in the separate PBI so the user in USA can use PC-BSD without breaking any law ?

richard.a
05-28-2006, 01:30 PM
That sounds a good idea. I really do wish I could find codecs that would allow me to play DVDs I have recorded from my own footage...

The set of codecs on the pbi downloads doesn't seem to help at all. Maybe I need to do more configuration.

But I wish people who knew answers like this would actually read and respond to these forum threads.

So many unanswered questions left up in the air, disappointing.

Richard in Australia.

gigaforce
05-29-2006, 06:47 PM
weird.. my kaffeine seems able to play DVD, i only installed VLC and Essential Codec pack... but it is very unstable though, everytime i switch from full screen to windowed mode it'll crash & there is no DVD menu support :P (maybe something wrong in my conf.. i'm just a BSD n00b :P)

antik
05-29-2006, 06:54 PM
weird.. my kaffeine seems able to play DVD, i only installed VLC and Essential Codec pack... but it is very unstable though, everytime i switch from full screen to windowed mode it'll crash & there is no DVD menu support :P (maybe something wrong in my conf.. i'm just a BSD n00b :P)

Kaffeine is a crap I vote for banning this s**t from PC-BSD. I never had any problem with KMplayer.

Charles
05-29-2006, 11:35 PM
Kaffeine is a crap I vote for banning this s**t from PC-BSD. I never had any problem with KMplayer.

I don't know what's goin'on here, but while I don't have video with KMPlayer plugin on Konqueror, using Kaffeine works just fine audio and video, and I haven't experienced any single failure using Kaffeine :roll:

Charles
05-29-2006, 11:36 PM
Richard, please re-download the Essential Codecs, I just uploaded the latest version (although it's named 1.1 too). I guess your version didn't have DVD support. It's working fine here.

antik
05-30-2006, 07:24 AM
Kaffeine is a crap I vote for banning this s**t from PC-BSD. I never had any problem with KMplayer.

I don't know what's goin'on here, but while I don't have video with KMPlayer plugin on Konqueror, using Kaffeine works just fine audio and video, and I haven't experienced any single failure using Kaffeine :roll:

With KMplayer you have to use for faster output X11Shm device. Check KMplayer settings.

richard.a
06-14-2006, 12:11 PM
Richard, please re-download the Essential Codecs, I just uploaded the latest version (although it's named 1.1 too). I guess your version didn't have DVD support. It's working fine here.
Thankyou Charles.

I have wiped my rc2 and v1 plug-in HDDs which was rather stupid; I downloaded the essential codecs into my recently installed v1.1 which like v1 seems to not work in several ways.

Specifically Kaffeine tells me the DVD is encrypted and the codecs needed are missing. I went to reinstall, and accepted the offer to overwrite the existing.

Next thing to try was a cold reboot. Just the same.

I find the new pbi website difficult to navigate around; I have one unencrypted DVD and this does play, so I'm wondering if I have downloaded the old version of the codec - they both were same version and date from memory. The size is about 15Mb.

From observing the one unenecrypted DVD I have, I can see that there are config settings I need to change - the video is jerky and out of sync, so presumably there is somewhere I can set DMA to "on" for the CD/DVD combo drive? This same drive in the same computer will play the same commercial DVDs satisfactorily in MS Windows, and in one Linux for which I have bought a commercial codec set.

When I get a moment, I'll reinstall RC2 and see how that fares.

Again thankyou... an url from where I can get the codecs you describe would be great. The ones on the new pbi website don't work for me.

Charles
06-14-2006, 12:32 PM
Richard, what I did is I packed the codecs from here: http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/dload.html

Feel free to install them manually if you can. Maybe you'll have more luck, who knows... :roll:

richard.a
06-14-2006, 12:41 PM
Oh dear, lol :)

I think that'll leave me out in the cold then unfortunately. I'm no guru.

I found a drive kicking around with v1.0 on it and have just tried it. Exactly the same. So tomorrow I'll reinstall RC2 on one of them.

There being an update to WINE I'll try that too; WINE and scanner were my main problem points with PC-BSD all along. And midi files.

TerryP
06-14-2006, 05:57 PM
I installed/updated the win32 codecs, libdvdread, and libdvdcss manually from ports on my desktop - DVD's work fine. Only Kaffeine tends to crash after awhile :o

KLU
06-14-2006, 11:47 PM
I would just like to make a small contribution to the complex and nuanced debate on the default media player in PC-BSD.

DIE KAFFEINE DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

End of message.
Thank you.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Charles
06-15-2006, 06:19 PM
I, for one, like Kaffeine a lot. It has works like a charm over the last few months. It plays nicely all kinds of streaming files here: asx, mp3, avi, mpg, etc...

TerryP
06-15-2006, 09:38 PM
would it play my friends AAC files?

Charles
06-15-2006, 10:09 PM
Yep! Click here: http://di.fm/

And then click on any "aacPlus" link, it'll launch Kaffeine provided that you have the codecs installed. I'm listening to the Chillout (http://di.fm/aacplus/chillout.pls) channel now :)

The Windows Media link works fine as well.

Ar2000jp
06-15-2006, 11:33 PM
i installed the PBI codec pack and tried to play Real media files from this URL http://www.yanni.com/media/default.asp?q=6%3A28%3A04+PM and it didn't work.
i played windows media streaming from other sites and it didn't work too.

i think Kaffaiene should be replaced with something better.

SeeYa

Charles
06-16-2006, 03:34 AM
What kind of error message do you get?

TerryP
06-16-2006, 08:59 PM
I was looking around one of the media programs on my laptop (xmms is the only non standard one) and I noted one that gave a path to Win32 codecs but not realplayer ones. I'll check around to see where I found it. (probably was xine, aRts or gstreamer.)

TerryP
06-16-2006, 09:25 PM
Yes I found out where.

Kaffeines Settings menu -> Xine Engine Params -> decoder options ->

There is no path set for the external reaplayer stuff, only the win32 codecs.

Ar2000jp
06-16-2006, 10:08 PM
The .RAM files didn't work, i clicked on the listen icon, and the Konqueror prompted me to save the file, so i saved the file and tried to play it with Kaffaiene.
When i double-clicked the file this is what came up,
"SMIL support is rudimentary!"
"KaffeinePart can now try to playback contained video sources without any layout. Proceed?",
i clicked "Yes", but nothing came out of the speakers.
This file is a streaming file, that's the thing behind the problem i think.

The windows media choice was an .ASX file, i clicked it and another Konqueror window poped up with Kaffaiene in it, it played the file very well, but the seek bar doesn't work.

The caching while paused is a really important option that this player has.

by the way, anyone listened to "playing by heart" in that site (http://www.yanni.com/media/default.asp?q=6%3A28%3A04+PM), it's really good :)

Aero37
06-16-2006, 10:34 PM
The windows media choice was an .ASX file, i clicked it and another Konqueror window poped up with Kaffaiene in it, it played the file very well, but the seek bar doesn't work.

The caching while paused is a really important option that this player has.

by the way, anyone listened to "playing by heart" in that site (http://www.yanni.com/media/default.asp?q=6%3A28%3A04+PM), it's really good :)

I think .asx is streaming like flash so there would be no seek bar

here's a screenshot of it playing here in firefox on desktopbsd (since pc-bsd isn't working atm and because the mplayer-plugin is only installed on that right now).
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7655/music6ic.th.png

btw, playing by heart is a really nice song :)

silvagroup
06-20-2006, 04:21 AM
Here is something many of you may not be aware of, A few years ago a group of guys developed a program now known as dvd decrypter. As the name implies it deletes the encryption scheme form the dvd. They were able to do so by inadvertently coming acros the css code (whatever the nomeclature is) scheme and writing a program do undo it. They started publishing their program and selling it. Of course the power to be sued the now fledgling company which praise be to then they fought back. The great thing was that they actually won the case. The US Supreme court said the the buyer of the product (any media product) has the right to make a copy of THEIR product they purchased for personal use!!!!! The small company however in the process went bankrupt but before doing so published their software to the open source community. In the U.S. you have the right to copy anything you buy, it is yours!
The software is Windows only but works very well with wine .9 - 1.0 after that it doen't seem to work right anymore. With all that said since you have the wright to the product you bought I beleive that the propietary materials required to enable the use of said product are cover as long as it is for personal use only. I know that in Windows when I pluged in a dvd the first time I ws asked if I wanted to install a certain video player to be able to view the dvd in Windows (Intelle somthing or another). That would mean the media I purchased also had the required codecs included as the total dvd package.
Maybe something there :!: :!: :!: :?: :?: